implementing at85c51snd3b on keil

 implementing at85c51snd3b on keil

hello i am really a newbie(an electronics student) and i have to use at85c51snd3b but i dont know how to set uvision for it. there is no proper target in device database. But uVision tells it supports.

actually i am supposed to built an mp3 player. i'll really appreciate any help for it. (at85c51snd3b1 does not include an built in mp3 decoder and i have to implement it by my own way. but again i have no idea about mp3 decoding(but i know about DSPs and microcontroller, and i am good at programming)

thx a lot for any help

 RE: implementing at85c51snd3b on keil

Dear Karatas,

Go to Atmel site, download the documentation. READ-IT.

Them, STUDY IT.

You will find more info on the MP3 decoder and so on.

About the how to set up microvision, guess what?

Go to http://www.keil.com and read the manual.

And them, STUDY the manual.

We shall be very happy to help you after you read the manuals.

Ed

 RE: implementing at85c51snd3b on keil

The OP stated: at85c51snd3b1 does not include an built in mp3 decoder

Ed posted :Go to Atmel site, download the documentation. READ-IT.
Them, STUDY IT.

Ed, I would have posred the very same, but since I refuse to use Atmel, I did not (could not state the below).

Based on rudimentary info in various posts I assumed that the OPs statement cited above was false and due to total ignorance of the importance of reading up on stuff before using it.

was my assumption correct?

Erik

 Fundamental error

"I assumed that the OPs statement cited above was false"

It is, indeed, false.

Right on the front of the datasheet, the 4th line from the top of the page says, "MP3 and WMA Decoders"

Clearly the OP hasn't even looked at the Datasheet - let alone read it!

 RE: implementing at85c51snd3b on keil

Dear Erik,

As Andy said, the info on the MP3 decoder is on the first page.

Guess this type of people never experienced an "EUREKA" moment in their lives, for all I hear from them is "gimme a circuit"; "gimme something"; "tell me how..."

I do worry about having a car accident at old age, and falling on the hands of a young surgeon that will go to a computer and search: "How to treat multiple fracture".

Do not laugh. It is not so funny.

Ed

 RE: implementing at85c51snd3b on keil

No, no. You'll be fine with a surgeon you _searches_ for the treatment of multiple fractures.

The real problem is if you get a surgeon who doesn't search, but instead makes a post: 'PLZ GV INSTR HOW TRT MULT FRAC!!!!!'.

 Or worse...

...a surgeon who just posts "HOW 2 TRT CRASH VICTIM???" - without even stating the nature of the injuries!

 RE: implementing at85c51snd3b on keil

hold on... hold on a second. "any help will be appreciated" doesnt mean "i need a whole project". First of all i read all manuals and documents related with this product. I wish you wouldnt say there is a mp3 decoder in it, with just looking first page. because actually this product is an dsp processor. its ancestors hold a built -in hardwired mp3 decoder but this! it implements all job by firmware.(if you dont believe just search keyword "decoder" on datasheet.) Here what it states :

"Prior to enable the digital audio processor by setting the DAPEN bit in APCON1(1), the C51 must load the processor codec firmware which is the stream decoder or encoder."

actually (i think) this product is a brandly new. and have not much resources(a programmer,a datasheet and a 2 application notes about high speed usb etc...but no firmware or related user guide.) and believe me i am doing my best.

Maybe i am wrong but those are what i understand from datasheet

 RE: implementing at85c51snd3b on keil

and one last thing :

i read the article "adding custom parts to the device database"(http://www.keil.com/support/docs/1421.htm) and downloaded proper header file. But i am bad at soldering and having problems with board i designed. thats why i want to be sure with parameters that i set for uvision is correct.(and error is at assembly)

 RE: implementing at85c51snd3b on keil

You seem to be a bit unlucky that they only have software for the snd1 and snd2 variantes.

 Have you registered?

"Please fill out and submit the form below to obtain the access and password to the restricted area. This will allow you to access up-to-date resources required to develop application using AT8xC51SND1C, AT8xC51SND2C or AT85C51SND3 devices."

http://www.atmel.com/products/mp3/mp3_registration_form.asp

 RE: Have you registered?

Where did you find that link?

 RE: Have you registered?

Andy Neil : really thanks for link. i filled it out and still waiting for them to sen password etc...( should it take so long to send it?) I hope i'll got some firmware and other helpful resources.

By the way, i mailed to atmel about resources and they told me, i had to purchase their development kit, for full firmware support! i am a student and i am not able to buy a $700 costing kit just for 2-3 simple firmware. do you have any other idea?

or will they send me a password for free instead of selling a kit? lets see:)

 RE: Have you registered?

"simple firmware"

How do you know it's "simple" firmware?

If it's doing all the MP3 stuff, it'll be anything but simple!
And it'll probably be subject to royalties.

Couldn't you use one of their other chips which does have the MP3 built in?

Or perhaps: http://www.vinculum.com/prd_vmusic1.html#vmusic2

 Atmel's other offerings

http://www.atmel.com/dyn/products/tools.asp?family_id=636

 RE: Atmel's other offerings

Yes, I have already visited that page, but all references are for the SND1 or SND2 chips, and I didn't find any links that pops up a registration form. They either moved to other pages, or opened downloads of SND1/SND2 software or documentation.

In the menu, I found a link 'Support Center' and in the footer i found 'Contact'. However, I didn't find a link to the registration form in your previous post.

Hence, my question where you managed to locate that link.

 lesson learned

Yes, I have already visited that page, but all references are for the SND1 or SND2 chips, and I didn't find any links that pops up a registration form. They either moved to other pages, or opened downloads of SND1/SND2 software or documentation.

lesson learned; investigate fully before selecting derivative. so, now, go buy a snd1 or a snd2

Erik

 RE: lesson learned

I'm not on a hunt for a SND1, SND2 or SND3. I was just curious where Andy managed to locate the link.

 RE: lesson learned

not addrssed to you, Per, just a comment on your post which reflect on the OP

Erik

 RE: lesson learned

But your claim was still valid anyway.

I did the mistake of selecting the wrong ARM derivative not too long ago. I went for an LPC2119 for a project without realizing that it is truly lousy at sending data as an SPI slave, requiring a change to an LPC2364. Since the Keil tools doesn't simulate the 2364 yet, I'm now waiting to see if the Keil update or the HW prototype will arrive first.

 RE: Where did you find that link?

This is what I did:

Go to http://www.atmel.com/

Type "at85c51snd3b" into the 'Search' box on that page

The results give nothing really interesting:
http://www.atmel.com/dyn/general/advanced_search_results.asp?device=1&tools=1&faqs=1&datasheets=1&appNotes=1&userGuides=1&software=1&press=1&articles=1&flyers=1&checkAll=1&checkAllReference=1&target=at85c51snd3b

So I removed the 'b' suffix and put that into the 'Search' box on the page, giving:
http://www.atmel.com/dyn/general/advanced_search_results.asp?device=1&tools=1&faqs=1&datasheets=1&appNotes=1&userGuides=1&software=1&press=1&articles=1&flyers=1&checkAll=1&checkAllReference=1&target=at85c51snd3

This one has the link to the Registration form!

 often a good ides

So I removed the suffix and put that into the 'Search' box

just realize that quoted like this it makes no snese, please read "So I removed the suffix and put the basic name into the 'Search' box"

Erik

 RE: often a good ides

Yes, that makes a lot more snese!

 Device Selection

" i am a student and i am not able to buy a $700 costing kit"

There is an important lesson to learn here!

Many things need to be considered when deciding what components to use in a proposed project, and one of them is the cost of the tools required.

If you're making a 1-off or low-volume product, this can be very significant;
If you're making a high-volume product, then a few thousand dollars spent once at the start of the project to save a few pennies on every one of millions of units sold obviously makes sense!

Undoubtedly, Atmel are aiming at the high-volume market for this.

Even for low-volume commercial projects, Engineering design time is expensive - and $700 doesn't buy many hours!

 Beg or borrow?

"By the way, i mailed to atmel about resources and they told me, i had to purchase their development kit, for full firmware support! i am a student and i am not able to buy a $700 costing kit just for 2-3 simple firmware. do you have any other idea?"

You'd probably be better talking to your local Atmel distributor.
Explain your situation as a poor student keen to use Atmel - they might be prepared to view this as an "investment" and lend (or even give) you (or your college) the kit.

Of course, if they don't, you can bear this in mind in your future career when selecting devices...

 RE: Beg or borrow?

Andy: Thanks for informing me what masteries are needed to find information on the Atmel site.

 RE: Beg or borrow?

they might be prepared to view this as an "investment" and lend (or even give) you (or your college) the kit.

or you may be fortunate enough that they will not and you will not use Atmel, but a decent brand instead.

Erik

 What's so wrong with Atmel...?

Erik,

At the risk of being flamed for being off-topic, why are you so anti-Atmel...?

Just curious...
Dave.

 RE: What's so wrong with Atmel...?

why are you so anti-Atmel...? Just curious...

When Atmel came out with the first flash based '51s I found a silicon bug in a revision somewhere around rev 'g'. I told my then management that we could not use the Atmel chip and they wrote Atmel "when is this going to be fixed?". Atmel wrote back "there is no such bug, we can not take bug reports from imcompetent (my emphasis) people into consideration". You can imagine what such a statement from a big company did to my relationship with management (I was told to do the impossible; use the chip since there was no bug). Now, lo and behold, somewhere around revison 's' what i had reported appeared in the errata.

Now you know.

Erik

PS I have been forced to work with Atmel since (inhereited projects) and the sluggishness in 'admitting bugs' is still there. Maybe now that the Perlegos'es are gone that will change, we have to see. The trade press commenting on the power shift has mentioned that, according to Perlegos Atmel could do no wrong.

 RE: What's so wrong with Atmel...?

We have had "non-existing" bugs with Microchip chips.

We have had a large number of "non-existing" bugs in Wavecom GSM modules. They have a number of times claimed that the bugs where in our software. The only strange thing is of course than when they 6 months later releases new firmware, the errors suddenly disappears in our software, while new problems arrives. The new problems often disappears in yet newer firmware, just to be replaced by a new set of strange - but not existing! - bugs.

Borland lost most of it's market share when they got controlled by ties and suddenly stopped admitting to bugs.

Quite a lot of companies have shown a bad track record. There is nothing else that is as effective when it comes to getting their customers to migrating to alternative products/solutions.

To this day, my only irritation with Atmel is their extremely poor simulation of their AVR chips. Getting a 3GHz Prescott to manage about 1MHz simulation speed of a trivial AVR core without almost any peripherial support can only be seen as a tour-de-force of bad programming.

 RE: What's so wrong with Atmel...?

my absolute rejection of all things Atmel is not based solely on their 'delay' in issuing errata.
While that is bad enough, my total ire is due to them (in the pre e-mail days) writing my management "there is no such bug, we can not take bug reports from imcompetent (my emphasis) people into consideration".
That they are idiots is one thing, but calling me one just because they [do not want to take the time to check]/[will not admit] a bug is a quite different story.

Erik

 Lost in translation?

"my total ire is due to them (in the pre e-mail days) writing my management 'there is no such bug, we can not take bug reports from imcompetent (my emphasis) people into consideration'"

I wonder if that was written by a Francophone, and they didn't actually mean it as badly as a native English speaker would take it...?

It is quite obvious that some Atmel documents are written in French, and the translation into English leaves a lot to be desired.

 RE: Lost in translation?

I wonder if that was written by a Francophone

could be, after all Chauvin who gave name to Chauvinism, was French.

Erik

Chauvinism: 2. Prejudiced belief in the superiority of one's own gender, group, or kind:

 RE: Beg or borrow?

yes Andy, there are some lesson i had learned and one is
to keep in mind cost of development kit. Here's the others:

* Do really check package of chip whether it is that you can assemble on board
(not bga package. I got snd2 & snd1 products but they are in bga package. And in Turkiye,where i live, there are not assembler firms to produce boards with bga boards for students low quantity demands!)

* Mp3 & wma decoder does not mean that product really holds really one decoder!!! they may offer more money for it.

*Keil's forums people might be quite helpful, although they love teasing on you. (Come on guys, dont be so cruel! I know that i need experience and i am really working for it.)

* And I love Atmel, hence they accepted to give documents for free!!!

Thank you a lot guys. Now i have to work harder to complete this project. 2 months to graduation...

 Small-Quantities

"in Turkiye,where i live, there are not assembler firms to produce boards with bga boards for students low quantity demands"

I don't think Turkey is alone in that!

BGA and suchlike are simply not designed for low-quantity. Full stop.